health care and technology both fit that particular area. and i think those are the areas that, from a prudent perspective, might be the best place to make your bets for 2013. >> charles, where would you begin the new year? i know you're looking at value tech names, leapfrogging off of what david just said. you make the point that dell -- i'm using a dell right now. it's not going to go away, you say. >> they've made some great acquisitions over the years. they have a ton of cash. people are predicting dell will go away. the pc is going to go away. we don't think it is. the stock is just very, very cheap. and microsoft is the same way. microsoft trading at well less than ten times earnings, is not requesting away. >> at the same time, charles, it may not be going away and cheaper, what's the catalyst to get it from less cheap to a little more expensive to make money on this investment? what is going to be that driver to make the stop go higher? a lot of companies can make products that exist for a very long time but not be very good investme